NetNews Offline 2/NetNews Offline Volume 2.iso/news/comp/lang/c++-part1/7890

Text File | 1996-08-05 | 9.7 KB | 236 lines

Newsgroups: comp.lang.tcl,comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++,comp.databases.sybase,comp.databases.oracle,comp.databases.informix,comp.databases.oracle,misc.jobs.misc
Path: openlink.one-o.com!rossix!joelga
From: [e-mail] (Joel Garry)
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: Vacant Job Positions
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Ross Systems, Inc.
References: <4fms71$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4fursk$[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 19:13:12 GMT

In article <4fursk$[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
>The original point of this thread speaks to the preconceived
>value, by corporate America, of a college degree in computer
>science.
>
>My own cynical view, regarding the universities and colleges,
>addresses not the students, but the system! Just today I heard a
>newscast about a medical school struggling with the root problem --
>money. (A problem not uncommon to us all.) Todays eductational system
>is ill prepared to function as a business entity and the people will
>suffer for it.
>
>What about VU -- Virtual University: free to all and comprised of all.

A nice dream, but not currently technically possible.  There is no
validation of the correctness of information on the net.  The downside
of giving all a voice.

>
>>>
>>>What about showing up with a good WORKING program?
>>>
>>>Isn't that some measure of ability ?
>
>>That just shows he knows how to copy, or cp as the case may be.
>
>Do what I do, test them on the spot! That will weed out the duds.
>

I agree with this.  In fact, I don't know why many more don't do this.
All I have ever gotten is weird tests of pseudo-assembler.  On the
other hand, databases are so broad it could be easy to miss a very strong
candidate just 'cause the test is a few degrees off his strong point.
This point is being argued endlessly in another newsgroup.

Of course, weeding out the duds and getting the good ones are two different
things.

>Personally, I do not run a social club; and team consensus will not
>pay my bills. Nor theirs. While the team debates the corporate theory
>of why they should do this or that, the competition has six persons
>coding and one person leading. (Drucker's rule of seven.)

Let us hope they are being led horizontally, not vertically.

>
>When was the last time corporate America turned out an original
>software product that had mass appeal and changed all lives? When was
>the last time you bought a theory? What you want is a product -- one
>that will make a positive impact on your life, make your job easier,
>and make you more productive. These products are created
>by THE LOAN WOLF who sees and hears what the packs are saying.
>( A master of communications does not always speak with words.)
But at least he uses the right words.  I hope you mean lone wolf,
although since you are using a pack analogy, you may indeed be
obscurely referring to some sort of criminality.  :)

>
>Once the wolf creates such a product, the wolf's interest is quickly
>lost. This is when the DEGREES are needed. Who else is mindless enough
>to day in and day out surround themselves in the same drab pigeon
>hole, communicating and being communicated to in the same old
>chatter... "he did this.. she did that... oh no, we downsized lasted
>year not again, will I be axed... and so on... and on.
>
>Perhaps that is why the wolf works alone...
>to garner his thoughts and filter out the packs noise.
>

Nice science fiction.

>Coding is mechanical! Development an art and Creativity RARE!

That is true.

>
>>>
>>>Doesn't that help to reveal where a persons strengths, weaknesses,
>>>interests lie ?
>
>>No.  Only actual behavior in a real work environment can show that.
>>Many people even fool themselves.  So a good assessment requires a
>>probationary period.
>
>Probationary period? I have not heard that one in a while.
>What will you do when ALL employees are nothing but IP addresses
>and name aliases?

Be defrauded by a bunch of liars.

>
>You do not think so?

No, because there is already a backlash against homeworkers.  Many are
realizing when you sit by yourself in a little room, only linked
electronically to the rest of the world, you miss out on much of the
communication bandwidth of a group environment.  It takes a special
kind of person to work isolated, and that is not the general case,
nor should it be.

>This is not fantasy, it is based on
>that five letter word that drives all change -- money.
>
>How can a corporation compete with a virtual firm?
>The VFirm has no employees and none of the expensive consuming
>infrastructures. It is a lean mean LOAN WOLF, that in a moments
>inspiration can called up an army of virtual workers, all ready and
>waiting, to function as a virtual team. Each member fulfills there
>domain requirement -- be it underwriting, contract review,
>or freight movement. When the market dries up, so what, the VFirm
>functions on a day by day or even moment by moment basis.

Some business entities may be able to function as this.  Most can't.
It can make for some very entertaining science fiction.  I've seen
several companies where the boss telecommutes - but no one else can.
The company suffers for it.


>
>Do not get caught as those before you -- dad worked 27 years for xyz
>and guess what he got -- REMOVE ALL PRECONCEPTIONS AND START ANEW.

My dad did just fine.  He had a high paying job, as well as his
own business, and instructed at colleges and universities.  He
created a number of new concepts and products in several fields.
He also worked himself to death, which as a child of the depression
was not a bad thing for him.  The worst that happened to him during my
lifetime was that new, younger owners took over the company he
worked for, and started saying things like, "gee, we could replace
him with 3 eager beaver younger workers."  So in that sense you are
correct in "guess what he got," but you are incorrect in carrying
the same type of thinking of the less experienced owners to the
logical conclusion - a virtual company.  The result of ignoring
experience is a dumbing down, drawing everything to mediocrity.  Virtual
companies have no way to learn from experience, and have a very limited
and skewed view of the world.

>
>>>
>>>Would a well developed program not speak louder than a degree ?
>
>I wonder what that professor thought when they should him that
>newfangled piece of spaghetti code that later became known as
>Visicalc. Gosh, the student even dropped out of college -- probably
>should have stayed and got the degree, do you think?

And did the inventor of Visicalc share in even a small percentage
of all spreadsheets ever sold?  For that matter, the inventor of
MS-DOS?  MVS?  Television?  Intellectual property rights laws work
to prod companies toward developing new things, but they are by
no means perfect.  In many industries, they are counter-productive
as currently written and enforced.  The far more common truth of lone
wolves is they are abandoned by the pack.  How this will work in
virtual space is far from settled, and may be quite negative for
the intelligent and creative, if television shows us anything.

>
>>Since my experience covers both the trained and the self-taught, I
>>can say it is very easy to miss the obvious if you teach yourself,
>
>Do not great discoveries come from the wolf to smart to learn the
>obvious, therefore, creating what is not obvious to the pack.

Yes, but so what?  The ocassional genius does not change the value
of a college degree.  And much of modern science, including new
"breakthroughs," comes from teams of workers, each doing their little
bit of science.  That was why I changed back to software, "science"
was just as much work as any other job.  At least in this field I
can get a comfy chair.  Sometimes I have regrets.

>
>>especially if you are creative.  The degree shows you have at least
>>been exposed to the basics, have at least the minimal ability to
>>follow directions.  I am constantly amazed at how rare that ability
>>is.
>>>
>>>My tone is intended to be more inquisitive than suggestive.
>
>>Since you are asking, the worst spaghetti code I have ever seen
>>came from the self-taught.  As well as the second worst.  The
>>third worst came from someone who previously had been an assembler
>>programmer.  A hint about appropriate training there.
>
>The best training for a potential programmer: eat, drink, sleep, and
>re-code spaghetti code -- yes it is painful, but no pain no gain. I
>want to thank all the spaghetti coders I have followed, for they have
>forged upon me a greater skill.

Ummm, some people wind up getting the wrong skills by recoding bad
code - they seem to think it is a good thing to be as obscure as
possible.  See any number of "Real Programmers..." jokes.

>
>"bits and bytes may break my code but comments will never hurt me."
>Mark Otero

Maybe you need to learn to write stronger code.  :)

>
>I am out of wind, so, I will put up my sail and drop my anchor.
>
>Best wishes,
>Mark
>
>
>                       !!!!!
>                      /'@ @'\
>+---------------oOOo-----U-----oOOo---------------+
>| Freelance software consultant specializing in   |
>| Oracle, C/C++, VB, Java, Win95, NT, & Internet  |
>| Mark Otero                        [e-mail] |
>| MPower                        Your Future Today |
>| 178 Beechbank Road               [phone] |
>| Columbus, Ohio 43213-1261    Fax [phone] |
>+-------------------------------------------------+
>                     | |  | |
>                    {__|  |__}
>


--
Joel Garry               [e-mail]               Compuserve 70661,1534
These are my opinions, not necessarily those of Ross Systems, Inc.   <> <>
%DCL-W-SOFTONEDGEDONTPUSH, Software On Edge - Don't Push.            \ V /
panic: ifree: freeing free inodes...                                   O